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The irony of claiming an echo chamber when strictly peddling this shit in an echo chamber is sadly l...
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You are talking to a wall. Women on Reddit are BEYOND out of touch with reality.
A wake up call was on r/sex when a guy posted about how his girlfriend said she'd had a 3some before and he felt jealous/left out - all the women on there just kept saying "Just go have one"
Because they're so out of touch they think, because it's so easy for them to have sex anytime/any way they want, that telling a man to "just go have a 3some" is an actually serious remark/suggestion.
I don't think that women fundamentally understand what it's like to be "single" - they don't even fundamentally undersatnd the concept of what it means. Because, for men, when they're single - it means they go about their lives and they're not really talking to any women, then maybe they'll start actively dating and find a partner. But there are windows with 0 bitches, and if you're low social value those could be very long windows. Women do not have windows without men, PERIOD, ever. For a woman, being single means you have an array of men fighting for you/giving you attention and you just aren't particularly interested in any of it.
No woman ever experiences true "single" ness. As a man, when you take a woman, you are explicitly taking her away from other men. As a woman, obviously chads have plenty of women orbiting them but they're the rare elites, normally when you take a guy as your boyfriend you're not taking him from other women fighting for him. As a man, that's practically always the case.
And especially on Reddit where almost everyone lives in such obnoxious echo chambers the misunderstanding is 10 fold. On reddit most people don't even want to understand, it's more of a platform for them to wage war on behalf of their ideology.
This isn't true. There's plenty of disgusting women out there that the majority of men they have access to want nothing to do with them. They can and do experience loneliness as well.
Source - Me, a good looking guy who was an asshole in high-school and made fun of these girls and watched them stay single to this day (I've apologized to most of the women I made fun of, except big Shirley, she was a bitch)
I've met no girl no guy out there wants
You've also only met a fraction of all girls out there so it's basically irrelevant to the bigger picture.
And you've meet a fraction of all guys out there. So also irrelevant.
But contrary to you, I know what extrapolation means
I mean I think everyone understands that when you're morbidly obese and have taken no care of yourself whatsoever that you have exceptionally limited yourself
and I say that as someone who is routinely grossly downvoted for always taking the stance that obese people actually can't really do aynthing about it, besides surgery (at least pre-ozempic era) because no one likes to hear that but if you actually research it enough the data supports that statement
The difference is that for women it's like the literal 1/10's who don't even look like they're trying (i mean i'm sorry, but tough love if you're 400lbs it's on you)
For men it's totally median average 4/10 guys going through school or with some unremarkable job. So, in bell curve terms, it's like 40-50% of men versus like 10-20% of women. For the women, you can look at them and be like "well... I think I see what the problem is :X" for the men it's like "yeah you're just an average, normal, unremarkable guy and it's gonna rough for you"
Ironic ending tgere, when you yourself start with saying women won't get it, when in our world, that's you who don't. Walking our shoes you would equally have known, depending on whos life I guess. There are many diffrent ones.
I'm a woman who has no man talk to me at all in my life. And men like you saying we have made me think someone would come, and now it's been two years not a soul. And men like you has made me feel like I'm not normal and not women enough for not having men If every woman do. No flirt, no friend recuest, only snap scam talking name is xxzxhxhxhx?? that can also be shady sellers. There is in your words, zero bitches to date or have anything with and there won't be eighter. Maybe not for years, possibly never.
When I said that erlier there where a few men popping up in my dm's here on reddit. But they don't see me, thats not romamance. That's desperation, impersonal and they would NEVER have dm'd me naturally. Only one did before that asking if i have red hair 😅
And that has also made me realise when women or men say it's hard to want to talk to people online in wanting to have a dating situation with you when you have no idea who they even are. They where right. It gives nothing. It could might as well have been a bot.
I don't know how you would feel If you because of this, got some women in your dm's and sorry If that is your dream and I don't aprecuate it exept for one who was in a relationship and for other reasons than to get to know me. It used to be mine, to feel like a woman. But now I know It's like looking at a screen. Like this concersation. Words.
But just stop it. Listen. You have it wrong. For some it's right, but not at all for women as a whole.
But it's probably out of choice if I asked to speak to you now would you accept and I knew your assets or look how much would really change
Because the men in question has been insulting women for years.
Then you would understand how shitty it must be to say that men have it worse because of the lack of romance to a woman who may be entirely alone in the world. You never know.
Women can have that as well. Can you for once listen!?
People are people with everything that emplies. No matter if very social people say they are so happy to be single, doesn't mean thats every woman has that.
And you also can't say men as a whole aren't lonley beyond missing romance. I mean, the phone. It's a more isolating world.
And have you seen how unromantic men talk about finding someone, it has mostly been about the lack of sex, let's not lie. It's shit.
It's not really lack of sex, it's lack of sexual desirability. That's why the "All my options are terrible" and "I have no options" disparity is actually significant. It's why this is almost exclusively a problem for straight guys. People don't kill themselves because they can't have sex, people kill themselves because they feel useless and defective because nobody wants to have sex with them. More than that there is fear and disgust. An undercurrent that not only do women not want to sleep with you, the idea of it would make them wretch. That is the "loneliness" men are affected by, a lack of external validation that they are desirable, or even tolerable. It isn't just that some men don't get laid, they don't get compliments, they don't get flirted with, nobody tells them they are good looking, they often are treated as threatening, etc. And there's no cultural messaging to pick up the slack. There's no body positivity movement targeted at men, the closest thing tends to be slightly tongue in cheek like "short kings" or unintentionally insulting like praising "dad bods" with pictures of models and movie stars that have gone from 8% body fat to 12% inbetween roles.
That needs to be dealt with. And, no, women can't fix it on their own, but there are behaviors and tendencies women do which are fundamentally incompatible with that problem being solved.
To many it has been the lack of sex becayse that all they talk about. Never relationship or anything resembling a cute moment, only not getting to sleep around on tinder. So they don't even know how women respond to them if they socialise and try more as many say they never have.
If the conversation was cute, women would feel there was hope of meeting men. Sinse the conversation is so negative it feels impossible when we are so many women looking for a loving man.
It's sad some end themself and they should get professional help as well as men talking kinder to eachother because you often break echother down saying no one will love you unless your rich and such. But to ask for sex to fix that is a no. Many aren't looking for hookup with strangers and it's not about the look of the men. So the logic their desirebility is based on is flawed and will most likely fail in the number game alone.
It's normal to not get compliments. I'm sorry, but it is and I live the same life. Not saying it's not hard, but it's not something you ruin the world for.
And as well, just give eachither compiment for starter!!! It's not love, but today it is at least some comfort and solution until he may meet someone.
We tell you to be kinder to each other, but women can't compromise their body, safety and life for men to feel hot. When you have to respect people. Fliting is a private thing that isn't something everyone is comfortable doing and there is no promise the ones we like will like us. That is something we have to learn to live with. And us women do that to, just look around at the comments. Women are many times preparing to be alone, and that the love we thought existed is a lie and not even possible.
I guess, for simplicity
If the male loneliness epidemic is about men lacking platonic relationships with each other, then who is responsible for fixing it?
As useless as capitalism
Please tell us how much the phone you are posting from cost, as well as your shoes and other daily items you use that are 100% wants and not needs 🤣
What is this psycho babble nonsense?
Nobody is responsible. People aren't entitled to romance. Having good platonic relationships doesn't fix romantic isolation and loneliness.
I disagree that fixing one fixes the other. You have people that have a romantic relationship but are lonely due to a lack of platonic relationship. I think men struggle with both but the biggest struggles is in the romantic department. Which is NOT fixed by just having more friends. Its fixed by finding a romantic partner. Now as the who's responsibility it is to fix that, if you believe people are entitled to it then its either men or womens responsibility depending on that persons sexuality. But i don't believe people are entitled to romance. So its not anyone's responsibility to fix.
Its just one of those life just sucks kind of things.
Yes. I understand that. But it is presented to us women by the media as a lack of men having romantic relationships and it being the fault of women.
When women KNOW it is cuz men lack platonic relationships with each other. And it becomes ostracizing to us women when we are looked at as the problem and as the solution
Its like when boomers blamed millennials for ruining random businesses. When it was the businesses fault for not supplying stuff the new generations wanted to buy.
Men right now face an issue where they lack platonic relationships with EACH OTHER
But we women are often told to take accountability for this issue because we too can cause issues and or harm in the terms of dating. And or because we are actively choosing being single and living with our female friemds or family over getting married to men.
Maybe since you are a man, you don't understand how it is presented to us women by A) the media and by B) men
We are told we are the cause of the epidemic. And thus responsibile for fixing it.
But the male loneliness epidemic has NOTHING to do with the gender war at all. And 10000% to do with the fact men lack platonic relationships with each other.
No amount of accountability of women sucking at dating or being gold diggers is going to fix the lack of platonic relationships men lack with each other
If every woman got together and said "yes. We can also be shit partners and cheat and lie and manipulate" men would still be more lonely than women.
Because the solution is out of our hands. Men need men who understand men problems
Just like women need women who understand women problems. Unfortunately for men, we women have more women who seek women and understand and extend this understanding to each other and we form communities based on this.
Sometimes, not always. When men make men only communities it is still focused on women and the woes men face in getting women to like them. It isn't about seeking male friendship but rather to again, point the fingers at women (red pill stuff)
It is frustrating to see men struggle to connect with each other then make a meme about women not taking accountability for the male loneliness epidemic
When you, a man, yourself is saying we would understand it more if we understood its more about platonic relationships
WHICH WE KNOW. Which is why we get so frustrated at being blamed and asked to fix it and take accountability for something we are not at fault for.
Like women are at an all time high of being single
And so are men.
So, if women are better off not being in romantic relationships you have to ask why?
And the reason is because we women have support and friends and community we built with women for women
And men lack that. Which isn't our fault
Im mentioning fault because the meme is saying we need to take accountability. Women are way more single than we have ever been before. And EVERYONE is choosing to stay single
Women just have more friends. We are told to take accountability for men not having romantic prospects when we as women are CHOOSING singlehood and our friends over dealing and interacting with men on a romantic level.
At a certain point you must know we are aware of this.
However the rift cannot be solely left on us and blamed on us like the meme and so many men expect
Its like a bad divorce. Wife leaves a guy who repeatedly fails her. And he goes "i am so lonely now. Ylu need to get over yourself and get back with me"
And there are a ton of men who see it like that. They want women to take accountability for walking away from men. But won't look at why there is a mass exodus of women from men.
The blame is often entirely put on us women. And it gets tiring and ostracizing trying to explain why we are so tired and fatigued from dating men just to have them go "well, women can suck too"
And it is like no shit duh. But you are the ones asking us to come back to you and remedy things. We removed ourselves from dating men on purpose.
Because we were better single than dating men.
And im sorry for men. But but its really hard to listen to men when we try to express our side we are yelled down and told to shut up and that we are wrong and that we Don't know what we want (the trope that women don't know what we want) its like tons of men are finding themselves single. For a myriad of reason
And the same thing for women. But women have jobs and friends and families and communities outside of dating that men don't have
And thats the OBVIOUS problem and root cause of their issues
Is men depend on romantic relationships. And getting attention, sex, and love from women. That they neglect platonic relationships thus feel like they have no purpose outside of women
Which is not something we women should take accountability for
At the end of the day you said we women would be more caring about this issue if we knew what it was about. According to you, romantic loneliness
When we know that the true issue is a lack of male platonic friendship and community
Women are better off without romantic relationships because many women choose singlehood out of bad relationship experiences.
Its not the same as for men who singlehood is often not by choice and many have just not had any romantic attraction at all.
The reason women are better off isn't because they aren't lonely. Its because often times women don't deal with romantic loneliness and if they do its AFTER being in a relationship. Not specifically feeling unwanted romantically and never knowing what it feels to experience romance.
Ok? But the loneliness epidemic is cuz men lack platonic relationships?
Or is it cuz of romantic loneliness? Because if its about romantic then women are also romantically lonely and therefore cannot be called the "male" loneliness epidemic
But romantic loneliness wouldn't be an issue if men had better community and relationships with each other
I as a woman do not want to be the sole provider of a man's happiness or self worth.
A man needs purpose outside of women. And thats the core issue. Is that. So. Many. Men. Cannot. Feel. OK. Without. Women.
And they need to stop relying on us for ALL of their needs, save for financial, and start relying on themselves and each other
All of this assumes a fixed set of standards for two people to be attracted to one another, when this is not the case. Sure, the vast majority of people subscribe to the body of these standards, but there's so much grey area for people to find connection and attraction that seems to be left out of your thinking here. Far too much emphasis is placed on these standards, predominantly by people misrepresenting women. Hence this sub.
I think you have the right of it, but not completely. Men feel romantic loneliness differently from platonic loneliness because it has a couple layers attached to it: failing to live up to being a man (esteem), failing to live up to being a man (identity), and lacking the one relationship where you're supposed to be able to talk about your feelings (lol, but in a sad way).
This is very much a gender expectations issue, an issue of society rather than men (or women, obviously) in terms of blame. But men are nonetheless pressured in this way at all levels. Attraction is just one relevant aspect, as it places a higher/lower difficulty on the romantic relationship and on esteem. But I think you're right that a huge part of the problem is a broader social decline of community and shared purpose, particularly for men in their platonic relationships (though far from exclusively).
Much of the difference between genders stems from the enculturation of men interacting with the decline in opportunities. I find platonic relationships far, far easier in shared physical spaces, and outside of them, I struggle to go out of my way to plan group activities, particularly when money and time are in short supply and with friends moving everywhere for jobs. I think there's a personality and behavior difference here, given the current condition of society, such that women are more likely to do what's required for relationships to work well where men do not (and this snowballs). You might notice this is also an issue romantically, lol. It affects women a great deal, as I think you were saying. And if men are struggling in one type of relationship, it affects the other.
Please note that I'm not using the typical "blame" paradigm here. Just speaking of behavior... and all behavior is caused. People can't simply start doing all the good behaviors, so to speak. If they could, they would be already, and therapy can only shift so much inertia. Plus, it's not like they have a crew to guide them along. Instead, the environment (in the broadest sense) needs to be made conducive to the behaviors people need. Or at least we should slow the steady decline in environmental quality...
Unfortunately, we're setting ourselves up to make this and all related issues far worse over the next generation. Much of the fundamental environmental problem is economic in nature, with labor power dropping generation by generation, issues like the decline of third spaces, and a variety of knock-on effects. Subs like this one will probably get more common, and the form of radicalization it often hints at will only contribute to the social problems that cause it. Both for the individuals involved and in society more broadly. I don't have a solution that's going to be embraced enough to matter. We just can't blame women. And we can't blame men. The problem has a larger scope.
Your evidence for how men experience loneliness differently from women was not a quality of their experience, but the quantity of it. That tracks.
And then the sub ate it up: also tracks.
You’re FUNDAMENTALLY wrong though. How do you explain how lonely Warhammer nerds are then?
They have LARGE male support groups and close friendships that extend outside the hobby. We just went to a funeral because one of my incel friends from the game club killed himself.
You don’t understand. It’s because they’re ROMANTICALLY lonely. They have friends…