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Who Killed Garrett Phillips?(self.UnsolvedMurders)
I watched both parts of “Who Killed Garrett Phillips?”, and I’m wondering if the question has alread...
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I was born in Potsdam. HBO did a purposely biased job at making these 2 episodes. They basically left out all of the stuff that showed Hilary to be guilty. Here are the reasons I think he's guilty(Though not enough to be convicted). 1.) He had a swollen ankle with a cut on it.....AND...when cops asked to see his ankle he refused. When they strip-searched him and saw his ankle, he then said he was "moving furniture" and hurt it,...they then asked him what furniture in particular, but he didn't know. This info was inadmissible in court because the Potsdam Cops are stupid. 2.)He was in the parking lot for 7 minutes but just so happened to leave just a few seconds after Garrett skateboarded by,....and went in his direction....so he would have OBVIOUSLY driven by GARRETT at the least and SAW him,...but NO, he said he didn't ,...he said he "went home"....which was in the OPPOSITE direction he was headed lol. 3.) He had broken into Tandy apartment twice in the weeks before the murder....un-invited,...Tandy told him to stop,...he most likely had a spare key made. 4.) He cheated on his wife...AND lied about it when confronted,...this is a sign of being a narcissist SOCIOPATH.
5.) He OBVIOUSLY told his daughter to tell police that she was eating with him at 5pm,...which is what she told police,...even though her text message to her dad at 6:24PM said "When's Dinner Dad?". 6.) MOTIVE. Tandy broke up with Hilary because Garrett hated Hilary. She texted Hilary: "My kids come first", and after a year of the kids still hating Hilary, it wasn't getting any better. 7.) Tandy dated Hilary for a year. She knew him more than any of us,....if she is convinced that Hilary is the murderer,...that says a lot. Don't watch this biased HBO crap. It's pathetic and very misleading. I'll admit though....I'd think Hilary was innocent too if all I knew about this case was info from HBO.
Hilary made every effort to cooperate until he realized he was being wrongfully suspected of the murder, at which point he tried to go to work (citing his constitutional right to do so at any time during the interview). But was denied that opportunity.
Main thing is the only evidence against him was the video footage from the HS. Which is easily explained. Hilary was a DIII soccer coach, going to the local HS to scout a soccer game/practice. This would never be seen as uncommon. It was raining at the time. Whatever soccer activities he came to recruit were no longer going on due to the weather. So... he left 7 mins later to go hang with his assistant coach, making a left on the way to his assistants house. (This Chain of events was corroborated in the initial interview with his assistant). All other statements after that were the result of his legal council understanding the prosecutions series of events/timeline against him.
It was sprinkling(that's why garrett was skateboarding still),...soccer players play in the rain, the game never stopped. Anyways, if Hilary was going to the assistant coach's house at 4:45pm, why did he arrive at 5:21pm???? It should've taken 1 minute. He said he was at home eating dinner with his daughter, but the daughter texted him at 6:30pm "When's dinner dad?". Huge blunder on their part. Hilary had a fresh ankle cut and sprained ankle, yet he couldn't remember exactly what furniture he was moving when it happened? If I was moving something and I sprained my ankle, I would curse out the particular piece of furniture and ice my ankle. He literally had to drive right past Garrett, yet he couldn't remember seeing him. Again, there is not enough to convict, but I believe Hilary is guilty.
Moot point. His assistant says he arrived at 5:21pm. At that time the responding officer was standing outside the door to the apartment where he reported hearing movement.
INCORRECT. The responding officer said "possible noise" was from that specific apartment. It could have been from any of the apartments. There was a lot of commotion due to the boy screaming for help and the fact that police were present. A lot of floorboards were creaking in various apartments. Furthermore the noise could have come from Garrett's final death throes.
Everything you're saying is WRONG. You need to read the responding officer's statement.
"At 5:24 p.m., Patrolman Wentworth reported hearing a faint sound of possible movement in the apartment — “a single person walking around” — though a police investigator suggested later it might have been Garrett in distress." Key Word: "possible"
Have you read the responding officer's report? He reports hearing movement more than once.
Yes, the first time he heard movement he was more confident about it, and it was at a time when Nick Hilary was unaccounted for. The second time he heard "possible" movement.
I agree...the documentary was frustrating. I felt it left out the examination of any of the evidence. Or perhaps the cops were so incompetent they didn't examine half the evidence to begin with? It's as if they decided they had their guy and just dropped everything else.
If cops ever ask you questions about a murder and start asking what you were doing, it is time to shut up. No matter how good you think your memory is if any evidence contradicts you then you're screwed.
NH was an idiot for answering questions about the high school. Just say "I don't recall". His lawyer should have coached him that if he says anything that can be contradicted then he puts a spotlight on himself.
There is no upside to lying about going home. Turning left could easily be explained away. He gains nothing by lying. If he is innocent turning left would be an unremarkable thing and his memory may have been faulty. Instead he looks guilty.
"Ms. Cyrus, the prosecution’s first witness, described one moment in which Mr. Hillary entered her apartment uninvited, although he had a key. “I woke up around midnight and he was standing in my bedroom,” Ms. Cyrus recalled, saying she was angry at the incursion. Still, she said he merely slept there, and left in the morning. She soon asked for, and received, the key."
"TANDY COLLINS...also testified under direct and cross-examination that Hillary, during a dispute over GARRET PHILLIPS, REFUSED to let her leave the house, picked her up and carried her to another room, then set her down.
"During direct examination, TANDY Collins talked about two incidents where she awoke to find Hillary in her apartment uninvited."
Under cross-examination, she said she and the defendant were still intimate on occasion and that he had a key to her apartment she had given him after they broke up.
When talking about a September 2011 incident where she woke up in the night with him in her apartment, Dumas asked Tandy Collins, “Did he ever say to you ‘I need a place to sleep tonight?’” Dumas asked Cyrus.
“No,” Collins replied, adding she knew he was moving at the time.
“He told you ‘I just need a place to sleep, right?’” Dumas said.
“Yes,” according to Collins.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/nyregion/garrett-phillips-murder-trial-oral-nicholas-hillary.html
https://northcountrynow.com/news/mother-grandmother-murdered-12-year-old-potsdam-boy-take-stand-hillary-trial-0180100
Tandy is an unreliable witness. She's grieving and has been fed a lot of information by the cops, including John Jones. Tandy and Hillary used to live together and they were still intimate for some time. Him showing up to sleep with her isn't all that weird. Her story also could have been twisted after being coached or talking about it with cops and her family, who appear to all be racist.
Tandy is just icing on the cake. She's obviously not racist, and so her gut instinct is worth something. But regardless: 1.) Hilary had motive(Garrett broke up his relationship). 2.) Hilary had athleticism to jump out of window and sprain his ankle...and lie about it,...and lie about his affair to his wife,...sociopath, lack of empathy, control freak. 3.) He had access to keys to the house. 4.) He stalked Garrett on camera and lied about going home. 5.) He lied about eating at 5pm with his daughter (6:30pm) 6.) He was 1 block away from the murder house right after the killing.
Something like forty percent of people have cheated on their partner and lied about it. It is not 'sociopathic' behaviour, it is fairly typical.
Also the injury he had was a scrape, not a sprain. The two are different and mutually exclusive. If he did scrape his ankle escaping, there would have to be blood or skin left behind. Even if the perp had noticed it and tried to clean it up, which seems unlikely due to the urgency of them needing to escape, it is not possible to remove all DNA with a simple wipe. One can concluded whoever escaped out the window did not scrape themselves in the process
Sociopath is my opinion of him,...anyone who believes he's guilty of murder believes he's a sociopath(For the record, I don't think there is enough evidence to prove he murdered Tandy).
As for the 'scrape',...if he was wearing pants or socks, and his ankle scraped into the side of the shed thingy on his way down, there might not be any DNA on the shed thingy. If you've ever gotten a scabby cut like that, you'll recall that there is no blood on your skin for the first few seconds. That's my opinion.
Pretty sure Tandy is still alive.
As someone who has sprained their ankle several times (1st degree, still gets swelling) just stepping on an uneven sidewalk the wrong way, jumping out of a 2nd story window and landing on your ankle wrong would be a 3rd degree sprain, meaning you can’t even hop on the other foot bc it’s so painful. You’re hyperventilating from the pain, and your whole leg below the knee swells up and turns every single color. You’d immediately go to urgent care and be referred to another doctor the next day, get a cast, crutches, etc.
But, I don’t live there and don’t know all the details. Just like Making a Murderer can make you think Steven Avery might be innocent, reading about it afterwards makes it so obvious that he did it without a doubt. I’m just throwing in some commentary about the ankle thing. It’s sketchy for sure. Looks like maybe he scraped it against the brick or sidewalk. But that would mean there’s skin and DNA left there.
uh, avery is 100% innocent...
kuss rd.
And did you notice the time stamp on her text messages to Hilary ? 11:44pm times late times shes out partying come over with her location BOOTY CALL she's got kids why is she out partying at 11:44pm oh wait she's a bartender how often did she leave the kids alone at the apts ? why is she partying out so late she's a mother who has kids and no one home stays out till midnight or later texting booty calls to an old boyfriend . Didn't see her texting to John Jones for booty calls FACT she was still seeing this guy Hilary and clearly it was her still keeping in touch teasing him maybe . The wife of Hilary cut up his clothes he acts of violence I think John Jones keyed his car but she had acts of violence NONE FROM Oral . John jones ACTS of stalking controlling and violence again NONE from Nick Hilary . Police thought it was easy to blame the black guy LOL THIS was an educated veteran black guy maybe not a cop like their but NO DUMMY . Nick Hilary COMPLIED with every single thing from the moment that child found dead HE COMPLIED and John Jones put the focus away from himself saying Nick did it the black guy did it the whispering the being involved in every inch of the investigation so he can continue to set the narrative and make sure his cop friends stay on that narrative
Correct. But even if he beat her up hundreds of times, my opinion of who the murderer is would still not be swayed. The visual evidence clears him,...and I don't think his oafish body could've jumped out of that window without breaking every bone in his creepy face.
Mary?
Mary is in jail for malpractice i think.
I guess she couldn't run a quarter mile from the cops then.
I didn't understand that part. Hilary didn't need to run a quarter of a mile, -he most likely parked his car between Tandy's house and his soccer buddy's house, -about 1 block away from each other, he could've ran to the guy's house in 20 seconds(I did it in 30 seconds). Mary was incompetent at getting points across.
DID you see the way they treated Oral on camera especially detaining him taking his phone strip searching him saying garrett's last words to the paramedics do want to know what he said Nick ? blah blah blah typical cops bullying lying breaking down the person and SHOCKED they got away with it on camera without enough evidence or warrants they didn't even have it to strip search the guy LOL that little nick on the ankle wasnt from jumping from a window IT'S A NICK not scrapes WHERE are John Jones photos ? Cops said they took them of him too strip search same type photos where are they ? never entered no one seems to know where they are want to know why ? BECAUSE police were covering for John Jones . Nick is a soccer guy i mean the guys always in sweats sweat suits and sneakers typical jock type but John jones bundled lots of shirts coats heavy pants HEAVY BOOTS .... that small opening in the window he jumped out of his big ass boot made the mud sliding area and crack in stone . Then this guy is all the sudden with Tandy in all the interviews holding her hand THOUGHT HE HAD A GIRLFRIEND ? what does she say about all this ? It wasn't John Jones kid yet hes in all the interviews and he's at the hospital when he officially dies on machines HE HAS TO BE that kid wakes up and says it was him in the apt ohhhh boy he was probably shitting himself .. John jones has all the anger aggression he's the stalker of this couple he found her the apt " he knows people" he probably got a copy of the key to her apt and was going thru it trying to find out how close they still were
You nailed it, couldn't have said it better.
So far, all you’ve mentioned as your reasons for why Hilary is guilty are things learned from and presented by the documentary. Since you’re from Potsdam and I guess that somehow makes you more privy to more information- what is it?
Do you give the same weight to the fact that jones was also seen in the hospital video with Garrett that same afternoon? Or that the mother wrote that she was in fear for her and her child’s life and safety from jones?
What matters here, is not how the HBO documentary presents it, but rather, you had an impartial judge who heard all the evidence and made the ruling that he was innocent.
Jones is a nutcase,...nobody is denying that. No way he jumped out of a 25 foot high window,...he's too old and stupid. The mother thought that Jones was a threat to her safety,...yet she still didn't suspect him as the murderer,...that says A LOT,...and you can't accuse her of being racist....because she dated Hilary. If Lance Armstrong can deny doing drugs for 15 years straight, Hilary can deny murder for the rest of his life. It's his only hope.
I had to laugh at the congresswoman getting involved LOL ??? she's running for office blame the black guy and lets all move on .. I def think John jones was already in that apt with a key he made he is the one who got her the apt and helped her. She's not being blind she's scared she was dating LIVING WITH a cop and learned quick how controlling and how they protect each other that puts her in a very bad spot .. She knows she's not going to win against this small town police dept her and John Jones grew up there . Listen to the dispatcher and the police SHE talks to they all say same thing THATS JOHN JONES ex girlfriend isn't that john jones ex girlfriend THE GUY HADN'T been dating her over a year apparently but this John jones still knew all Tandy and NIcks moves and still that break up a huge topic of conversation so much so they let this guy Deputy John Jones attend all the recordings at the police station with Tandy also was with this boy when he coded ummm huh ? HE'S NOT THE KIDS FATHER or STEPFATHER that should have never been allowed .... and ahole dispatcher giving John jones information over the phone while they are working on Garrett ??? SHAME ON YOU TOO dispatcher ! It's not his business . You gave him even the officer who was first on the scene over the phone . Lies about taking photos of John Jones too . the few showed didn't even show a face LOL
If the injury to his ankle was so prolific why was the DNA evidence so scant? They literally could only say that in a population of X it was a chance of Y? Makes no sense. Also The guy is a soccer coach not a professional hitman. You can see from the crime scene this was not planned out event and there was literally no valuable evidence? Sorry a jilted Sheriff with a background in crime scenes is the logical choice. That and the distance covered is not humanly possible with the time allowed even with an 8-pack.
Disagree with a lot of this and Hilary was a soccer guy they have ankle issues calves etc where's the so called photos they took of stripping John Jones down taking photos ? They said they did but none ever shown DID THEY ? Are they then at this point starting to cover for John Jones whos basically family to them being a cop . John Jones flipped his shit because the relationship didn't work out John sure did know a lot about their movement ESPECIALLY after Tandy moved in with Oral like Orals friends said THEY DIDN'T hide the relationship. But Jones banged on doors a car gets keyed " Oral's car" he knows of their movements he talked with Orals wife on the sidewalk Hed been with Tandy but even her movements was making it harder for him to keep tabs on them . He said I asked her i asked Nick are you guys together so i can go on with my life .. JOHN JONES no where near went ON WITH HIS LIFE LoL He was daily up in their business and did TANDY really call John jones about the death of GARRETT right away ? where are those phone records showing that ? But Jones had no problem being there holding her hand and having his little private conversation with his buddy behind the desk i mean hell Jones was in on all the recordings WHY ???? It wasn't HIS KID . Had no problem letting him be at the hospital too at the time the child died on life support WHY ? Wasnt HIS CHILD wasnt' HIS CASE . He had to be so he could set the narrative TYPICAL jealous controlling narcissist . Watch TWO SHALLOW GRAVES you'll see what that looks like
This just does not feel like a Revenge Murder case.
I am not convinced he didn't do it myself. I am also not convinced he did it. There is just no evidence to suggest he did or did not do it.
Most cases have some evidence even if circumstantial that show some sort of proof the defendant did it, especially when you go to trial, but this case has nothing but a video that shows him going left when he should have gone right. THAT PROVES NOTHING.
The motive is super weak. Kill the kid as a part of revenge? I don't buy it. What does the killer gain from that? Satisfaction? Nick is way too smart to seek revenge through murder honestly. Now wrong place wrong time accidental death and cover up, I can get behind that reasonably.
Yes he claimed he was moving furniture. The injury from the HBO doc looks like its nothing more than a scrape on his ankle, and no DNA evidence was found or blood at the crime scene. However, if you watch the 20/20 link I put in the original post you will see Elizabeth Vargas drill Hillary on this topic and even talk about how his ankle was swollen not just scraped which Hillary maintained the same moving furniture position. He did not deny his ankle was swollen unless 20/20 cut that part out.
There was a boys' soccer game going on. According to Nick he went to watch it but it was raining, he waited for it to let up, it didn't, halftime came, he left. He went home to talk to daughter about dinner, but weirdly, daughter texted him at 6:30 asking him what was for dinner? Daughter does say he was at their house between 5 and 5:15, but is she trustworthy? Does the text at 6:30 say she is not? However, the assistant coach says Nick was at his house at 5:21 and knows this by his phone records. When being questioned (DRILLED) by the cops he did not seem rattled and he also felt credible in what he was saying. But I would be remiss if I did not point out how easy it would be for Nick to jump out the window and make it to his assistant's house by 5:21.
As for the left turn the town is so small I do not think it really matters which way you turn, especially if you just need to stop by someones house on your way home. Hillary's car was also not caught on the camera of the street that Garrett rode down, which doesn't mean anything actually because he could have used another way to get to their house so he wouldn't be seen.
Couple of theories or plausible reasons for turning right and not left include:
either way without physical evidence there is enough reasonable doubt to acquit Nick Hillary if all you are going on is that he turned left when his house was to the right