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If you're playing PLO for any reasonable stake online, your opponents are sharing hole cards
It's too easy and too profitable for people not to do
As someone who did very well in the club app scene the last three years, 1000% this. I have more or less stopped playing since PLO5 became the predominant game because of the cheating. You would have to be naive to not think you are getting constantly cheated on those and game and group selection matters so much.
Are these cheaters decently good players or is the burden of being cheated just huge enough for it to be automatically unprofitable?
It’s kind of a nuanced answer to this, the games were SO profitable for a long time that it didn’t matter if a few people every couple of tables were cheating. I mean it does obviously, anytime you are being cheated automatically eats into your win rate. But you could pick your spots and still reap the benefits of the soft fields and as long as you played the correct types of hands even cheaters can’t overcome that super easily.
Now there are bots in the app scene, the rakes became absurdly high, as well as the hugely diminished player pool it’s just not worth the effort to try and overcome all of that and cheating for the most part. You have to pick your groups selectively and your games selectively and even then you have to assume you are still being cheated at least part of the time. I’m going to be completely honest I’ve shared hole cards in some app games with a friend or two of mine that we were certain there was cheating happening, if only to protect ourselves a little bit. We never did it to set up plays or squeeze people out of pots or swindle people or anything, basically just to stay out of each others way and protect our stacks from those we deduced were doing the same or even being more malicious about it. I don’t feel great about it as I’ve never cheated playing poker in any other form, but at some point you have to do what you have to do to protect yourself…or not play, which is what I do now mostly. Point blank if you are playing in app games you ARE being cheated no questions asked. You need to go in eyes open to the risks.
Thanks for the detailed answer! It's definitely a very sketchy sphere. I've recently started playing Hold'Em on an app game and so far it doesn't seem suspicious, though the games I'm in are also not nearly as soft as some other club games.
This is fucked up though. If you wanna protect yourself, don't cheat. You can't just cheat other unassuming players along with likely cheaters and just claim you're doing it for protection.
I’m not really going to argue that fact with someone who wasn’t knee deep in the app games during the peak. It just was what it was, hence why I don’t play in any major groups anymore. If I play an app game now it’s only ones where I know the owner personally and most of the field or small local ones with all the same players and even in those you are going to get cheated.
This has to be rampant on the club apps. There's a reason they push PLO5.
The people I used to play with live said PLO on the apps was a team game
So because there’s 5 hole cards players will sharing giving them information to 20% of the deck of the go?
Yeah. Bc the reason is more gambol = more fun
The reason is that more cards = more playability = more vpip = more rake
Can confirm. PLO5 was THE GREAT GAME for a 1 1/2 years until the player pool diminished around the time the casinos opened back up so the collusion was apparent. I called it out so many times. Club owners would dust off a 500 bb stack with a gutter + king high flush draw to “maximize fold equity” but buddy ol pal flashes the nut flush blocker. Your gonna call off a stack and win with a set or straight sometimes. But double suited open ended wraps combined with knowing wether your outs are live or not is soul crushing for opponents who think their playing a straight game when your really playing against soft playing and colluding assholes
Evidence?