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Men are leaving fiction reading behind. Some people want to change that.(nytimes.com)
submitted 6 months, 2 weeks ago by raddyroro1 to /r/books (27m)
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[–]-not_a_knife132 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Anyone find this trend of tracking and critiquing men and their decisions exhausting?

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[–]Draughtsteve43 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Second NYT article in this trend this week. Sad!

permalinkparentcontexthide replies (1)author-focusas-ofpreserve
[–]-not_a_knife48 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

"Paranoia among men is on the rise. The implications are terrifying"

- NYT, probably

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[–][deleted]40 points6 months, 2 weeks ago* (edited 2 hours, 13 minutes after)

I do. It comes across as stating a problem and not caring about the solution.

Edit: Misspelling

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[–]SuperSoftSucculent22 points6 months, 2 weeks ago* (edited 4 minutes after)

It's in the comments, too. Generally dismissing the Warhammer books some guys read, as if they're worse than romantasy stuff.

It's thinly veiled misandry, but if you point that out, it means you're a MAGA Trumper incel who hates women or something close to that. How dare you be offended by any mischaracterization as such as well, you should know its okay to judge books by their cover of course.

I've just accepted that my opinion about my own decisions is unwanted. As well as my presence in such spaces. Clearly, I don't have the wit or intelligence to handle the elite bar of fiction that others do.

Also, there's a non-zero chance all of gender politics posting is done to purposefully ragebait people due to varying agendas.

permalinkparentcontexthide replies (2)author-focusas-ofpreserve
[–]nyctrainsplant9 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

My hot take is that you might find a more believable male character from 40k tie-ins than Rooney, who's recommended here lol.

permalinkparentcontexthide replies (1)author-focusas-ofpreserve
[–]forestpunk-4 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

and yet the womenwritingmen sub is totally dead.

permalinkparentcontexthide replies (2)author-focusas-ofpreserve
[–]nyctrainsplant4 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Yeah, it’s not socially acceptable to comment on it. What’s your point?

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[–][deleted]3 points6 months, 2 weeks ago* (edited 5 hours, 1 minute after)

Instagram and tiktok are full of people making fun of women writing men.

The forearm dicks.

Dick and balls jiggle physics.

10⁶ pack on everyone.

The billionaire prince duke with horses and a mansion falls in love with the main character with absolute zero defining traits or emotions.

Love triangle.

Weird as fuck sex things.

Monster fuckers.

Etc.

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[–]-not_a_knife1 point6 months, 2 weeks ago

Oh, that's just the internet, now. I try not to take it too personally. It is wearing, though

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[–]SuperSoftSucculent8 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

I've experienced irl too.

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[–]lynx_and_nutmeg12 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

It's funny how feminism aimed at women is all about supporting women's choices no matter what they choose, and feminism aimed at men is all about pressuring men to only make certain choices and not others in order to be "good men".

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[–]Xander_Philips4 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

It's a little bit more nuanced than that, but I see your point, and I see why that would be frustrating.

There are so many branches and off-shoots of feminist ideology that it would be a disservice to pin them all down and then lump them into the same bag. The core tenets might be the same, but there are subtle differences that often bring them into conflict with each other. For instance, there is a branch of feminism that is actually quite reductive and actively works towards restricting women and forcing them to make certain choices; while on the other side of the coin there are feminists out there who want to help and support men, recognizing that there are aspects of the patriarchy that are harmful to both genders (even though the harm manifests in different ways).

I think, in general, it is best to take a kindness approach. Assume that intentions are good, and your life on the whole will be a little bit better for it. And always ignore the haters. Nothing good ever came from a hateful person.

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[–]RedKrypton7 points6 months, 2 weeks ago* (edited 5 hours, 33 minutes after)

The subtle differences in thought between different strains of feminism are kind of moot, because we are talking about the mainstream version of it, which remains rather consistent in messaging and action between men and women.

As for kindness, there is a difference betweeen healthy optimism and hopeless naivite.

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[–]RedKrypton5 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Is it really a trend if has been going on for decades? It's just the latest wave.

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[–][deleted]2 points6 months, 2 weeks ago
collapsed

I started skimming as soon as I saw the phrase 'toxic masculinity'

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[–]RedKrypton2 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Don't skim the article. It's the perfect template of a decently edited faux-compassionate article about men.

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[–]Xander_Philips-2 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Controversial, but I don't. Self-reflection is vitally important, and asking probing questions is a great way to start that process.

The way I see it, people can critique and scrutinize all they want, but they're not in the ring. They don't have dirt on their hands, nor sweat on their brows. They're not fighting my battle. I am. I decide what I do next. Everything else is just noise.

So, pick up your shield, brother; it's time to fight in the shade.

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[–][deleted]-4 points6 months, 2 weeks ago
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[–]Veyron200014 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

 Publishing and reading is female dominated for the first time ever, by a narrow margin, and so we have a constant string of panicked articles about how men need affirmative action to get men into books. A bit demeaning.

This is just categorically false. As a man who loves reading fiction this kind of attitude really irritates me - publishing and fiction is overwhelmingly female dominated, and not by a “narrow” margin (something like 75%+ of books in your local bookshop are by, for and about women. Seriously, go check yourself) and has been for decades at this point. 

I remind you that over that same time span there have been countless strident articles by journalists about the need for “more female representation in fiction!” and “more female heroines!” and “we need to push more female authors!” and “privileged male authors are overrepresented!” countless lists of “great new books by female authors with female characters!” …. 

and yet, contrary to what you suggested, almost zero articles about the need for “more male representation in fiction” or “more male authors”. No, the prevailing attitude amongst the (overwhelmingly female) book and book journalism world is like yours: it’s the men who are the problem. At this point these people are just blatantly sexist, there is no other word for it. The hypocrisy is glaring. 

Look at this NYTimes article. No mention of the huge gender imbalance and underrepresentation of men and male voices in new fiction. Instead its blaming men for being “addicted to the manosphere”. 

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[–]AlexSomething7891 point6 months, 2 weeks ago

Yeah, it's kinda tiresome.

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[–]-not_a_knife-1 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

I never thought about it that way. Why is reading not allowed to be woman dominated?

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[–]Rivarr10 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Because we've had it beaten in to us that gaps can't exist without bias. We're all identical so any difference between groups is a problem to be fixed.

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[–][deleted]3 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Why aren't games allowed to be male-dominated?

Why aren't tabletop games allowed to be male-dominated?

Why aren't certain hobbies allowed to be male-dominated?

If it was so wrong for things to have too many men in them for the last 60+ years, then the same is true for women.

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[–]-not_a_knife2 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm fine with environments being naturally predominantly one sex or the other.

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[–][deleted]-1 points6 months, 2 weeks ago
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[–]-not_a_knife-4 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

It's funny, I thought readers in general were predominantly woman for a quite a while, now. I want to say it's been that way since the 19th century.

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[–]Martel732-2 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

I am a guy and I agree with you. Movies and video games are aimed mostly at men, and there isn't much serious discussion about needing to get more women watching movies. And then extremely successful female-targeted movies like "Barbie" seem to be treated like a flash in the pan.

But, women reading more than men is treated like a crisis. And I have seen many comments about how men are being pushed out of literature. While women being soft excluded from other media is just met with a shrug.

Getting on my soapbox, all of this makes me think of ho,w as a society, we have a male-default mindset. And anything challenging that is seen as a disaster.

permalinkparentcontexthide replies (1)author-focusas-ofpreserve
[–]rasta_a_me-1 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Well, if people want to change that, they need to step up and fill the niche. It's all good that people are acknowledging the lack of females in gaming media, but what are they're actually doing about it? It's still old white gamer bros that pull the strings and make the games.

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[–][deleted]-5 points6 months, 2 weeks ago
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[–]-not_a_knife5 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

What do you mean?

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[–]Late_Pear8579-5 points6 months, 2 weeks ago

Chicks dig reading about men, seems natural to me.

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