258
Weaponized reporting: what we’re seeing and what we’re doing(self.ModSupport)
Hey all,
We wanted to follow up on [last week’s post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/...
since 6 years ago
36 of 36
Tip Reveddit Real-Time can notify you when your content is removed.
your account history
Tip Check if your account has any removed comments.
view my removed comments you are viewing a single comment's thread.
view all comments


Let's be realistic here. Subs like The_Donald thrive on content that violates ToS/various laws/common decency. Those mod teams will remove ToS-violating content, sure; several hours later, or maybe the next day after it's gotten all the views/replies/upvotes it was going to anyways. Much of that content could be easily filtered from ever appearing in the first place through automod, but these teams choose not to do it. So, it's hard to be that sympathetic to the plight.
There are more subs than that. For example, let's look at /r/SelfAwarewolves , /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM, and /r/TopMindsOfReddit as examples. Two of those three will trawl The_Donald for posts that violate their sensibilities, XPost or screenshot it to their sub where it get voted straight to /r/all. If the point of a sub being quarantined is to make it so the content from that sub doesn't make it to /r/all, and only people who are explicitly looking for that content can find it, why then do other subs get to repost their tripe under the guise of criticism to circumvent that very intent?
Then, of course, there's the matter that all three subs will post content with direct links or screenshots with full usernames in the clear. Other subs which repost information in that form require identifying information to be removed to prevent harassment. Given that people who post there are often also the same people who will complain about a "harassment campaign" when the same is done to them (quote reply on Twitter, posting screen caps with username in the clear to the "wrong" sub, etc) how can that not also be considered the same?
How does this tie into the topic at hand? I report that crap when it comes up. I'm betting the mods who get those reports are hoping to go to the admins claiming that it is report abuse. The fact that it is hitting /r/all means that the admins should be aware of it happening and doing bupkiss about it, or they are unaware and ignorant of what is popular on the site at any given time.
I rarely report report abuse and have never reported anything from TMOR for report abuse.
reddit requires neither screenshots nor username redaction. While a few subreddits require it there is nothing in the TOS that even mentions this non-issue. Are you saying you want the TOS changed and special rules applied to the many meta subreddits? I notice that you fail to mention r/WatchRedditDie, r/subredditcancer, r/shitpoliticssays and other subs of that ilk. Arethey exempt?
2nd EDIT: I'm leaving the text as is but I misspoke in here by saying /r/all, instead of /r/popular. I conflated the two. So any place where I said /r/all, I meant /r/popular. Thanks to Maybesaydie for questioning me on the /r/all content so I can correct it.
First, thanks. You're the first person to respond even though I've watched the vote on this comment fluctuate like lava lamp.
There are three criteria there. While the username redaction is not a violation of TOS (which you covered) that still leaves the other two.
That comes down to common decency. Now, given that other subs require it out of common decency to prevent harassment of the individuals in question are you saying that you aren't so concerned? This is exactly why, later on, I pointed out that many of the same people who traffic to your sub are the same people who would consider what your sub does a coordinated harassment campaign.
Now, let's take a gander at the Content Policy, specifically "Unwelcome Content", section 3, bullet points 4, 5, 6.
Does reposting screenshots from other social media count? Not saying it happens, just saying that it is something to look at.
So, you don't feel that your sub might be a tad intimidating when people know that your subs are there to crosspost and/or post a screenshot of their actions for mockery?
So public posts count.
"...directing abuse at a person or group, following them around the site, encouraging others to do any of these actions, or otherwise behaving in a way that would discourage a reasonable person from participating on Reddit crosses the line."
So what, exactly, do you call it where you have a sub which is trolling through other subs, looking for material to crosslink/repost for mockery and upvotes? Sounds like following those people around the site, and the upvotes are encouragement.
I mean, it's considered a harassment campaign when someone your subscribers disagrees with posts a screenshot to their social media when the screen name is in the clear. Sure, you can argue that technically that's not the case but that is precisely why other subs require the redaction so they know they are absolutely in the clear.
So at best, at best you can say you're right on a technicality that most reasonable people would probably consider scummy. Anything other than that and you're in violation of the TOS.
As for the "reddit requires neither screenshots nor username redaction." For TMOR, a technicality. On the other hand, do you know how many times I have seen Twitter screenshots in the other two I mentioned with real names in the clear. While it mentions Facebook above, I think we pretty much all know that common sense means that was an example, not a hard and fast rule and all other social media, past present and future, are exempt.
And still, all of that does not touch the first point I made which is this.
Your sub repeatedly has posts which are from a quarantined subreddit and subsequently voted to /r/all. Here is the intent, clear as day, from the post explaining what a quarantine is intended to achieve.
If the point of a sub being quarantined is to prevent its content from being accidentally viewed but those who do not knowingly wish to do so, explain how your subreddit posting screenshots from a quarantined subreddit isn't doing just that? Your sub is purposely locating objectionable material to post and then boosting it to /r/all.
Let's return to the content policy, section 4, 3rd bullet.
Are you creating multiple accounts to evade restrictions? No. Are you circumventing the clear intent of a quarantining a sub? Absolutely. So, again, at best technically correct but pretty scummy. Also, probably a content policy hole /u/worstnerd and gang need to plug because what's the point of quarantining a sub to prevent unwanted views by the general population only to have any Tom, Dick and Harry to screencap it, post it to an unquarantined sub, and have the same people still see it unwanted?
I'm saying that, at best, you're toeing the line so closely it's being smudged into oblivion and at worse you're already violating the TOS. My view is the latter, and it all hinges on one setting that I alluded to in this post.
I didn't mention them for one simple reason. Do I see them on /r/all on a near daily basis? No.
Most of the above is an issue because it hits /r/all constantly. It is boosted to the view of anyone who clicks that link. That means people who are unaware of your sub's specific rules. In my view it is a clear violation of the quarantine to repost quarantined material and then boost it to a level where it hits /r/all regardless of whether you are for or against that material. I also feel that posting usernames in the clear from this, or other social media sites, especially if they are apt to be real names (like from Twitter) is in many cases a violation of the personal information clause of the TOS and also the harassment clause through the disincentivizing people from posting clause.
Yet, all it takes for you to drop that is to go to Moderation Tools, Subreddit Settings, Other Options and uncheck at least the first of these two options:
By not exposing your sub to /r/all you are no longer posting quarantined material counter to the stated purpose of the quarantine. You're not engaging in overt disincentivizing people from posting by having them run across those in /r/all. And in the cases of subs which do post from other social media sites at least they have to dig for the information which is clearly against the TOS.
EDIT: Or, you know, remove those posts from your sub when reported as is your responsibility as a moderator.
All of this is about TMOR? A tiny subreddit with not even 300k subscribers? You see the sub on r/all every day? How far down are you scrolling?
No, we're not going to voluntarily exclude ourselves from r/all. If the admins wanted to they could and would. I don't believe that we're in violation of any part of the TOS and I'm sure, again, that if we were the admins would be in contact.
I know it's practically a meme at this point but I will add that if our content bothers you as much as it seems to you can block the subreddit from r/all or rely on r/Home to avoid seeing it.
No, about several subs, a selection of which I offered as examples, one of which was TMOR.
Nearly daily, no more than 3-4 pages when bored in the afternoon. If you get close to 1k upvotes on something in a reasonable amount of time you can hit the first few pages of /r/popular.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/top/?sort=top&t=month
As of right now you have to scroll to position 42 to get to the last post with at least 1k upvotes. All of those posts. 42 possible posts in 30 days. 15 of those 42 posts are screencaps NP links to /r/the_donald, a quarantined sub. So at least one post every other day in the past month from your sub that probably hit r/popular has come from a quarantined sub. And you're pulling a Steve Urkel, "Did we do thaaaaaat?"
TMOR is a sub which strives to entertain by pointing out nonsensical and ignorant submissions from reddit users. We don't restrict submissions from any subreddit. But we don't turn down much content either. If you're suggesting that we have some sort of requirement that T_D content is preferred you're wrong. They just happen to have a lot of relevant content.
[removed]
Restore AllHide UnarchivedNot the issue. If you subscribers were trolling through CTH and getting it on /r/popular the point would still stand.
Quarantined content is being reposted outside the quarantine and boosted to the very place the quarantine was supposed to prevent it from being visible from.
The point is the quarantine, not the source. It just happens the most popular source for your sub is T_D.
the "troll" you're looking for is actually spelled "trawl"
Crap, you're right. Thanks much. Can't believe I brain farted on that.
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)
I thought you guys were leaving reddit. How's your new site coming along?
They're just waiting for that final ban hammer so they can cry victim one last time.
In general, we really encourage users to report content directly to mods. There are a number of reasons why users dont always do this: 1. They don't know how. 2. They don't receive a response quickly enough and start trying to get ahold of anyone that they think will respond. 3. They don't think the mods will act in good faith.
There is not great solution to any/all of these issues outside of education. But first and foremost, I want to encourage the reporting of policy violating content, bonus points for it going through the correct flow.
The flip side is those who don't understand that the report button goes to the mods, not the admins. I've seen users submit reports as if they're telling the admins what bad mods we are, clearly hoping that the 'admins' will see their reports and punish the mods.
It's kind of a sideways weaponizing of the report function.
lol - I get these once in a blue moon. More often than not, it gives me a good chuckle...it's simultaneously annoying and entertaining.
It's more a misfire than weaponizing.
Every time I've reported something in one of my subs to an admin, I've gotten a matching mod-level report.
We get a ton of people that swear they totally reported something but it didn't show up on our end - I highly suspect that a huge amount of reddit users don't actually know which reports go to admins and which go to mods.
Great, I've been doing that for weeks now on the following. Should I start reporting to admins instead given that I have no expectation of the mods of those subs, or the many others like them, to do anything about the content they are fostering? I mean it's two check boxes for them to correct the problem and they can't be buggered to do that much.
3.
Your default mods have acted and continue to act in bad faith.
I won't bore you by rehashing user complaints of all the things they do that are driving away users and ruining Reddit for regular people. Instead I will mention this.
Remember when a bunch of default moderators were talking about going dark and blackmailing Reddit by shutting down the subreddits they "control"?
That is the kind of bad faith that causes people to avoid reporting things to the mods and go directly to the admins. At this point many many many default moderators are the enemy of the normal user and a bane on the free exchange of ideas and discussion.
[removed]
Restore AllHide UnarchivedThis is terrible! Awful! Unfathomable! Deplorable! Disastrous! Astonishing! Won't anyone think of the poor marginalized internet trolls and bigots who are being driven from Reddit by mods who don't want their communities to be a never-ending Aristocrats joke? Won't anyone think of how they are forced to move on to one of the hundreds of other platforms that will allow and even encourage them to be the worst possible version of a human being they can be?
Oh!, the humanity.
This is exactly it. It isn't just about being able to say vile things consequence-free.
Actively post and moderates in a subreddit that labels other users Nazi for having any conservative leanings. Doesn't see how they might be part of a very serious problem. Tosses out snide quip to one up and kill conversation rather than encourage continued and open dialogue in a subreddit for "all" moderators to discuss this issue.
Nope. Reddit is clearly working exactly as intended.
Your user history is amazing. All of the participation you favor is available to you on Voat, censorship free. I always curious why more of you don't avail yourself of such a wonderful resource. If free speech absolutism is the goal it's already available in exactly the same format.
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)
There are no default mods and haven't been any for years.