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X-postIt's more nuanced than that(v.redd.it)
submitted 2 weeks, 2 days ago by AntiImpSenpaiDefinitely not a CIA operator :CIA-: to /r/HistoryMemes (12.6m)
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Repost cuz they removed the other post because of the weekend rule thing :(

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[–][deleted]94 points2 weeks, 2 days ago
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[–]Crownie19 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

Hot take: it's actually not that nuanced. The USSR unequivocally sucked. What positive things it accomplished were still negative value over replacement, and created an unbelievable amount of avoidable death and suffering along the way (so unbelievable that Soviet apologists have largely chosen not to believe it).

There's a reason that the USSR fell, and it's the same reasons all their allies and like a third of the country headed for the exits as soon as they could.

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[–]dutch_mapping_empireStill salty about Carthage :carthage:10 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

redditors are famously scared of nuance.

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[–]OPisOK6 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

The USSR was bad. Why do I need to have a nuanced opinion o say a bad thing is bad. 

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[–]PlusAd40341 point2 weeks, 2 days ago

Because it was a state. They’re all mixed, especially world superpowers.

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[–]OPisOK6 points2 weeks, 1 day ago

Would you say the same about Nazi Germany?  

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[–]PlusAd40341 point2 weeks, 1 day ago

I mean like a really big point of Nazi germany was genociding “lower races” and invading more countries. Fascism as an ideology needs unending violence and conquest. That’s why it ended and caused the most destructive war of all time. That’s a pretty big factor. Even then they had very weird moral standards and implemented comprehensive animal rights laws for example, one of the first countries in the world.

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[–][deleted]-10 points2 weeks, 2 days ago* (edited 1 hour, 27 minutes after)
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[–]yarealy22 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

Hmmm I wonder what nuanced opinion of the USSR you have, invisiblecommunist

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[–][deleted]-8 points2 weeks, 2 days ago* (edited 7 hours, 31 minutes after)
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[–]yarealy9 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

keywording

Idk what that means lol

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 2 days ago
collapsed

That’s fine, it basically means hyper focusing on specific words or phrases (keywords) to the point of ignoring or dismissing the rest of what is being said. 

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[–]yarealy2 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

Oh got it. Thanks for the info 💖

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[–]invisiblecommunist4 points2 weeks, 2 days ago
collapsed

You’re welcome 

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[–]BamaBuffSeattle0 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

Not to say that you are wrong in that it was an improvement, because I agree, but I feel that the improvement was barely above the very very low bar that the rather inept Russian Monarchy had set.

Sure, you could argue Russia had to recover from a bloody civil war and walked right into Stalin and then WW2, both of which were both massive setbacks to the overall goal of communism, but they could have been overcome by the time the 1980s came around. Yet they were not.

The Soviet Government was a vastly corrupt state, one who could easily be diagnosed with some sort of national PTSD following the brutality and paranoia of Joseph Stalin. The continuation of the GULAG system and prison camps post-Stalin likely didn't assuage any fears, and their decisions to keep what what was becoming the hypernormal in place was effectively their downfall.

The government was too proud and too corrupt to prevent Chernobyl from happening, and a Chernobyl like accident seems certain even if that plant was brought under control that day. Leningrad had similar issues and was close to a meltdown in 1976. Hell, the Mayak plant melted down in the 1950s but because of its location in the USSR and the winds (and the fact the US governmentdidn'twant it'sown people to be scared of Nuclear Power), the Soviets were able to keep it under wraps. They were too proud to admit their Soviet RBMK cores were massively risky and more likely to meltdown than their western counterparts.

Women's rights on paper were often walked back in practice, especially in the military. The Night Witches only existed out of sheer desperation, and even after their success they were kept out of the Victory Day parades.

And that doesn't even begin to factor in their treatment of ethnic minorities or even the ethnic majorities of the other SSRs in the Soviet Union, or the way they tried to Russify members of the Warsaw Pact like Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Like I said, the USSR was a step up from the Russian Empire in a number of aspects, but it was pretty much, imo, one step above the floor and no higher.

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Your point about starting from a low baseline is precisely what makes their progress meaningful. To dismiss the Soviet project because it didn't match a 21st-century ideal is to ignore history entirely. We have to judge societies within their context—what they emerged from, what they faced, and what they tried to build.

Let’s look at your specific claims:

You say the USSR was “barely above the floor” of the Tsarist empire. But that “floor” was a feudal, illiterate, economically backward state where famines were periodic features. The step up wasn’t marginal—it was revolutionary. It meant electrification, universal literacy, the eradication of epidemic diseases, and the industrialization that ultimately stopped the Nazi war machine. This wasn’t a slight upgrade; it was a change in the very category of society.

This brings us to the Gulag system, which you mentioned. It was a harsh penal institution, but its constant comparison to Nazi death camps is a profound distortion that ironically whitewashes the Holocaust. The archival records show most inmates were incarcerated for criminal, not political, offenses. Its peak population percentage was actually lower than that of the modern U.S. prison system. This doesn’t excuse its brutality, but it does mean we must understand it as a flawed and severe justice system, not a tool of genocide.

On Chernobyl and “pride”: attributing a complex technological disaster to a single national vice is not serious analysis. The RBMK reactor had a known design flaw, but the accident resulted from a specific series of safety protocol violations during an unauthorized test. To reduce this to “Soviet pride” ignores the technical and bureaucratic factors at play—factors present in many industrial disasters worldwide, from Bhopal to Deepwater Horizon.

Finally, your critique highlights the persistent double standard in these discussions. The USSR’s failures are treated as inherent to its ideology, while its achievements are dismissed or attributed to coercion. Meanwhile, the profound failures of capitalist states—colonialism, slave economies, destructive wars—are often treated as historical aberrations, not systemic features. If we apply the same contextual and critical lens we use for the USSR to other great powers, the simplistic “evil empire” narrative falls apart.

My core argument isn’t that the USSR was flawless. It’s that to understand it—and to learn from its triumphs and catastrophes—we must move beyond moral caricatures and examine the material and historical conditions that shaped its path. Your framework of judgment seems rooted in the present, not the past it seeks to analyze.

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[–]invisiblecommunist0 points2 weeks, 2 days ago* (edited 12 hours, 8 minutes after)

Wow that’s a lot of words. 

I read them, and it’s the same shit as ever other “intellectual anticommunist” 

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[–]RaiderCat_122 points2 weeks, 2 days ago

Says “u/invisiblecommunist”

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
locked

I say something that is objectively correct. 

I get downvoted because communist in username. 

Something isn’t adding up here… 

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[–]Postalkuati2 points2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Is the "objectively correct" with us in the room right now? You are getting downvoted for stating your biased opinion in order to defend your ideology and favourite empire. Very simple and deserved.

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Hmm… 

So… if a communist says something it’s a “biased opinion” and “defending ideology” 

But if a nazi in denial says something it’s a “nuanced opinion” 

How strange… I wonder what kind of person would say something like that? What kind of person would say a communist is “too biased” and “pushing an agenda”? 

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[–]Postalkuati1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
locked

Disagreement = Nazism.

You are genuinely tetric. I don't want to engage with you, there's no future in doing so.

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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It’s not Disagremet = Nazism. It’s the clear historical fact that fascists, including Nazis, deeply hate communists. 

But at least you’re intelligent enough to understand that a Nazi or similar would say that a communist is “too biased” and that they themselves have no biases and nuanced opinions. 

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[–]Postalkuati1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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So everyone who disagree with a communist, such as you, will be labelled as a nazist. That's essentially what you are implying and what I said, so yes, for you "disagreement = nazism".

Unless for you what I said come out as hatred instead of disagreement, if that's the case, well, I would recommend going to a therapist because being this insecure is genuinely sad.

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
locked

I am very certain saying that: 

  • The USSR was a significant improvement from what came before. 

  • not everyone sees it as a nuanced topic 

Is objectively correct. 

But all you see is a username, and then ignore or downvote. 

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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  1. Yes it was a correct statement. 

  2. There is no such thing as unbiased, even you are biased. 

  3. The USSR was not an empire and saying they were is a severe distortion of definitions. 

  4. You can’t even understand simple basic concepts. Don’t tell me that downvoting me for my username is “simple and deserved” 

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Hmm… this is ad hominem isn’t it? 

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[–]RaiderCat_121 point2 weeks, 1 day ago

“Before the throne of the Almighty man will not be judged by his actions but by his intentions”

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[–]invisiblecommunist1 point2 weeks, 1 day ago
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And when my intention is to state a fact? 

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