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ShitpostingFor legal reasons, magic doesn't work like that(i.redd.it)
submitted 3 months, 3 weeks ago by DreadDianahuman cognithazard to /r/CuratedTumblr (519.4k)
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[–]BlacksmithNo9359414 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Honestly, if it were me, I would claim that I think it's all bullshit even if I was a true believer just to cover my ass. So sticking by it is honestly a baller move, respect.

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[–][deleted]224 points3 months, 3 weeks ago* (edited 1 hour, 5 minutes after)

We're about to create a branched timeline where Charlie Kirk's estate sues the witches who cursed them and they (the estate) have to appear in a courtroom and legally prove the existence of witchcraft.

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[–]JudgeHodorMD64 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

I thought it would be on the estate lawyers to prove the witches could have done anything meaningful.

So long as theirs no hard proof magic works, witches have plausible deniability.

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[–][deleted]14 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes that's what I meant, I realise now it was unclear how I phrased it.

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[–]sumr4ndo2 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

I mean, if you think of it, what chuckles was doing is a kind of witchcraft, where he put out the kind of energy that would set up the universe to bring this outcome.

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[–]mankytoes88 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Yeah but that wouldn't help her grift, which is funny considering who she's claiming she harmed.

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[–]RosebushRaven50 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Eh, they’re often grifters sincerely believing in their own grift, and their customers willingly grifted, so…

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[–]Raltsun30 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

If they believe in their own nonsense, it's not exactly a grift, is it? That's just profiting off of being wrong.

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[–]voideaten22 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Makes me think of this video about cold-read 'psychics' starting to believe their powers are real. When the grifter starts to believe their grift, they're called a shut-eye.

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[–]theyellowmeteor5 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

What do you call a grifter who had always believed their grift?

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[–]voideaten6 points3 months, 3 weeks ago* (edited 4 minutes after)

Christian?

Jokes aside, that phenomenon is in religion, politics, conspiracy, urban legend, misconception, etc.

Perhaps you'd call them a victim, because it includes disinformation, crypto, and pyramid schemes.

But really, the people I know that are 'witchy' are all women (yet to meet a witch man) who dabbled in it for 'fun' and associate magick with women's empowerment, via a woman's innate connection to 'nature'. I think the people involved in this particular movement try it for other reasons and then stay in it because they like how they feel about themselves in it.

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[–]Ok-Warthog-484915 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

I’d suggest the opposite:

Grifts are most effective when the grifter is a true believer. Charlie Kirk, for example.

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[–]RosebushRaven3 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Yep, that’s why the true believers sell so well. People can feel the vibe. Genuine faith — especially in something you secretly think is silly — is really hard to fake, especially over extended periods of time. It’s really tedious, particularly in close contact with the suckers, which this line of work usually includes.

For an entirely cynical, non-believing grifter, it’s hard to get through all that airy nonsense without lapsing or getting annoyed, bored and frustrated, because it’s all so dumb. They seldom last. Otoh, someone who’s good at fooling others tends to be good at tricking themselves, too. That’s the heavy downside if that skill. Hence why many of them also get sucked in over time some way or another, and why they often end up suckers for others grifters in turn.

It’s also why the classic, cynical grifters in the scene love to latch onto those genuine, sweet, selfless, naive ingenue types who truly believe in their stuff, think they’re doing something that helps others and want to do it for that, and/or to meaningfully connect with people, not for money or popularity. That personality type is like the antithesis to a swindler, but has a really strong, natural pull on suckers.

On their own, however, they usually struggle with money, because they mostly have terrible business sense, or can’t be bothered to care about that at all. They’re also often very unhappy in normal jobs. They’d much rather devote themselves to whatever flavour of mumbo-jumbo they’re doing (and may even quit a real job to pursue that, without a proper plan, ofc) and wish they could somehow live off that.

Only without people having to pay them (however that’s supposed to work), which they feel carries the baseness of a cold, uncaring, money-fixated world into their warm, welcoming little bubble where they can finally be their true selves and — as they see it — do good. (So bit of a cloud castle resident.)

Many of them feel it’s shameful to want money at all, it makes them very uncomfortable to even think and talk about. They’d rather give than take. People often insist giving them something, because they feel they’re being taken advantage of otherwise. Grifters however see people argue with such a goody two shoes to puh-leaaase take their money and think "KACHING!!!"

It’s hard to convince these types to see money or self-promotion as good things. They feel it’s dirty and base and are a bit holier than thou about it. That’s a classic grifter’s common entry point, though: they approach such a goody two shoes, often like a concerned friend, and convince this very trusting individual to let them heroically take one for the team (lol) by handling the business and promo part, so they can focus on their stuff and "help more people" — all for the greater good!

Since they usually want that so bad, and those are the arguments they like to hear, they eat that up like honey, it’s like a dream come true for them. If the grifter is actually good at the hard business and promo part, they can quickly rise in popularity and start making bank. There’s no shortage of people wanting to be scammed… very eagerly in this particular area.

For the grifter, that’s a free cash cow who even feels grateful they take on the "dirty work", as they see the money. So very lucrative. Conveniently, they even work the suckers for the most part, and their genuine belief very often makes it a really soft sell. Often that doesn’t work out so well for the face of the enterprise, though.

You guessed it: they often make a run for it once they get enough money, while the sweet innocence thought they’re real friends, and not seldom lovers (it’s usually a cynical guy exploiting a naive, kind-hearted but misguided woman), so now they’re heartbroken. Occasionally, though, they get off their high horse about money matters, become much more savvy, wisen up to the game and dump the grifter, whom they no longer need. Usually with a shocked Pikachu face, since they never thought it possible, which is really funny.

Crazy, how often those scenarios play out so predictably like they’re acting out a script.

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[–]Raltsun2 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Maybe this is just me having only heard it in a certain context, but isn't "grift" basically a slightly more specific synonym for "scam" (usually of the long-running variety)? And a scam requires intentional deception, by definition.

Though I would argue Charlie Kirk was still a grifter even if he was morally aligned with the garbage he spewed, because with the amount of deflection and slander he kept up until his last breath, he absolutely knew he was lying about how much the right-wingers "needed" to empower people like him to "stand up for their rights".

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[–]RosebushRaven1 point3 months, 3 weeks ago

It is still a grift regarding the people who fall for it, the grifter just has deceived one more person. There’s plenty of swindlers with bonkers ideas (especially in the esoteric and occult scene) who believe at least partially in their own stuff. They still have that glib tongue, shrewd calculated way of roping people in and an instinct for the money that makes them much more similar to a fully calculated, machiavellian grifter as people typically picture them (think moustache-twirling villain, but with swindling) than to the honest rube who just happens to be able to make a little money on the side with it.

Though, from what I observed among the people who are into this (had a parent get into it hard for a couple years, it was shoved down my throat, which is why I’m allergic to it now, but I met a whole bunch of these people, and several grifters and semi-grifters), I gotta say, people who only see them from the outside generally overestimate the machiavellianism of the small-scale grifter in that branch. A few are full-scale classic charlatans/swindlers. Most of the others are on a sliding scale between these and their suckers, and are often suckers of other grifters in turn. Unlike more cynical grifts, with this stuff, they’re mostly much less strategic than people tend to think, believe a lot of it and have their heads up their asses themselves in many ways, so the lines are actually very blurry. I’d say the main difference between grifters and suckers in that area is business-savvy.

On the other end of the spectrum, there’s plenty who sincerely believe, genuinely want to help people, genuinely think they’re helping by "cleansing their aura" or whatever nonsense, but absolutely lack the business sense of a grifter. They don’t even want the money a lot of the time. Many of them even feel it’s shameful taking it and either do their thing for free through word of mouth, so never build a snake oil business from it, try to but fail, because they care more about lore and connection than money (and don’t plan to scam people but genuinely believe their own BS), or take only symbolic sums on people’s insistence, so make only a pittance from it.

They may nonetheless give up their regular jobs, because they sincerely think they’re doing something worthwhile, getting good feedback from their "clients" makes them happy, and so they want to devote themselves to (whatever it is that they’re doing), because they get a satisfaction and sense of meaning out of it that they lack in some standard office job.

(In some ways, psychologically, they occasionally even may help, e.g. by listening to people whom no one else hears out, validating them and offering some comfort and safe space to them, or helping stressed people relax and sleep better, which is what actually restores them, and so on.)

Some are in it primarily for attention and admiration, have figured out a spiel to get it, and if skilled at social engineering, may build kind of a little cultish circle around themselves, or even grow big. They tend to be on the narcy side and are mostly after supply, but may still have a terrible business sense, or renounce money as dirty, unwholesome and below them, so no classic swindlers. They’re kind of grifters in a lot of behaviours, but grift primarily or exclusively for popularity and power, not for money.

They can be harmless airheads who just want a lot of praise and validation, or can be highly toxic, dangerous, abusive individuals with cult leader ambitions. I rate them as a subtype of semi-grifters. May overlap with classic grifters and transition into one over time, if they see how much money they can make and are tempted, or if someone coaches them on the business part and convinces them there’s no shame in tricking people into emptying their pockets for you.

Some are really just in it for the thing itself and the people they think they’re helping, though and want neither money no fame, i.e. good but misguided people (who can nonetheless do terrible harm, depending on their beliefs). People in the scene will often insist to give them money, because they can be extremely naive, even by that scene’s standards, and very selfless, so they’re not good at making money in regular ways, either. It’s just not important to them.

Sometimes it’s a saviour complex/codependency (so a more covert version of the attention-addicted group). Others are legit that kind and giving, but usually also very sheltered, naive, innocent and gullible, almost like children. Not necessarily dumb or simple-minded, just very trusting, sometimes to the point of almost no self-preservation instincts.

I suspect a lot of them are neurodivergent and end up in that scene because they’ve been looking for a warm, welcoming bubble where they can be their true quirky self and live out their compassion, sensitivity and joy in taking care of others, and be taken seriously, instead of ridiculed, so they latch onto that magic stuff, because there’s a lot of people like them, or who like and admire them.

Unfortunately, they’re very easily taken advantage of. Not just in the classic eso sucker way, but also as a sockpuppet for classic charlatans who see their potential pull on regular suckers, because they radiate genuine faith in the thing, kindness and joy.

If they somehow get popular and lots of people start throwing money at them, it’s usually others doing the business part and promo for them who urge them to take it and try to profit off them, but this type of person is just a pawn being used by the actual grifters in the background. It’s a pretty sad thing to watch, because they really just have good intentions, fell for this stuff, think they found a way to do good and are being used.

From the outside, all these can appear indistinguishable from ordinary grifters of that bend (albeit perhaps unsuccessful ones). Functionally, they’re doing the same thing, as far as the sucker is concerned, and are perceived all the same. It’s like the difference between classic grifters and legit businesspeople (or those who aren’t really cut out to be businesspeople but would rather just do the thing itself and interact with people in a meaningful way, who hate they have to deal with the money aspect of it and are terrible at it), except there is no legit type of business in this branch, because it’s all bogus.

So if the grift isn’t defined by selling bogus but only by full intent to sell it/knowledge that you are, then yeah, these sorts wouldn’t be grifters. But they’re still doing damage, even if they don’t consciously mean to. And as I said, the lines are blurry, because apart from these honest, naive, selfless types, there’s a loooot of people with grift-ish kind of mindsets in that scene, and a lot of grifters who believe at least in some of that stuff and are suckers for others in turn.

It’s all kinda jumbled. And they can be very hard to distinguish from one another, unless you know them really well, because they all go for that airy-floaty self-presentation. It’s a really interesting field to observe different types of grifters in action, though.

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[–]fakeunleet2 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

That describes about 3/4 of the decision makers in machine learning and about a quarter of them still in cryptocurrency.

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[–]RosebushRaven2 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

Lots of people follow the grand old tradition of the charlatan without even knowing it…

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[–]Sh1nyPr4wnCheese Cave Dweller38 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

All she'd need to say is "bullets are not a component of my curse, this was an unrelated incident that occured before my curse took effect"

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[–]BlacksmithNo93591 point3 months, 3 weeks ago

Can't sell tarot readings and incense burnings from max sec either lol

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[–]nothing_in_my_mind66 points3 months, 3 weeks ago

It's her business though. Why would she say "Yeah it's all make believe, our spells do not work, do not purchase our services and give us money".

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